The Geek Saga Podcast Episode 90: When Fandom Goes Too Far Part 2 – The #StopToxicFandom Movement

geek saga podcast #stoptoxicfandom

Episode 90 of The Geek Saga Podcast originally aired as a live webcast, “When Fandom Goes Too Far Part 2: The #StopToxicFandom Movement” on December 30th, 2023.

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Join myself and special guests Paul Jenkins, Mary Anne Butler, and Bill Watters as we discuss the #StopToxicFandom movement, featuring an in-depth look at our experiences with “The Axanar Problem”, a toxic situation that has run rampant in the Star Trek fandom for far too long.

A note on this episode’s length: The live webcast from which this audio was pulled ran approximately 3 hours, 10 minutes. While this podcast version is approximately 27 minutes shorter, I did not remove anything that was imperative to the discussion. With one minor exception (a portion of a sentence that I spoke *about myself* between approximately the 2:44:20-2:44:35 mark in the webcast), the only things removed from the original recording were pauses/periods of silence punctuated by unnecessary words (‘umm’, ‘like’, ‘right’, ‘you know’). Therefore, this episode is a lot more raw than most of my recent podcast episodes. Apologies to my regular listeners for that, but I knew that if I cut out anything other than what I listed above, I would likely be subject to accusations of trying to hide/erase “bad things that were said” (or some other such nonsense phrasing along those lines).

Additionally, I would like to give a trigger warning for a brief mention of SA, which takes place between the 2:16-2:23 time stamps in this podcast episode.

Geek Saga Podcast Episode 90: When Fandom Goes Too Far Part 2 – The #StopToxicFandom Movement

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The Aftermath of an Interview: Alec Peters & Bullying, Interlude 3

I suppose I should have assumed that my participation in an interview regarding this blog series would lead to my having to write yet another interlude post, but I guess I hoped that speaking my truth for 58 minutes would speak for itself…so to…speak. (lol)

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that it didn’t go unnoticed/ignored for long.

Of course, it seems as if the only reason my interview came under fire in the first place – at least to the extent that it has – is because Alec Peters was recently accused of allegedly buying YouTube views for his channels.

I’m including some screenshots that were shared as possible proof of this happening, because I feel it’s important to note that these accusations certainly weren’t baseless – YouTube channels that do not produce viral-level new content do not usually get tens or hundreds of thousands of views in a day, period; also, YouTube often negates views for a variety of reasons, but very rarely if ever do they negate tens of thousands, or HUNDREDS of thousands, of views at a time…unless those views were from bots, or possibly from the purchase of real views from a questionable provider – particularly if those views happen in large chunks that do not mesh with a channel’s usual average daily/weekly views.

Now, YouTube will also remove views that come from the same user watching something multiple times and views that are under 30 seconds long. Also, if a user changes a video from public to unlisted or private (or deletes it entirely), that video’s views will be removed from the channel’s stats unless/until it is made public again. Therefore I leave it up to you, the reader, to draw your own conclusions regarding the stats pictured below and what they might mean:

Data like this – which comes from a website called SocialBladewas shared in Axamonitor at least as early as March 13th. To be fair, there were certainly some other things going on around the same time (i.e., a new filing in the case between Alec Peters and Paul Jenkins, as well as accusations of Alec possibly participating in GoFundMe skimming), but it makes the most sense that it was the calling out of those allegedly purchased YouTube views that led to the following post being made in the “””Real Truth About Axanar””” Facebook group on March 17th (screenshot taken from an Axamonitor post made that same day):

First, I have to be very clear that I really don’t care about the number of YouTube views that this interview has received. Apparently that’s a point of contention, but I have participated in a LOT of webcasts/video interviews, and let’s just say that if I truly cared about the number of views they got, I would have stopped bothering with them a LONG time ago.

For posterity’s sake, here is the interview in question:

Regardless of WHY Jon Tessler suddenly started harping on a week-and-a-half-old interview (by the way, see my Interlude 2 post for more on this particular person), the most absurd thing to come out of my interview being brought to the forefront is that in the 58 minutes I spent talking with Matt of TrekZone, the 3-ish minutes that I spent talking about Crysstal Hubbard’s accusation regarding a man named Curtis Short allegedly assaulting her has become a sort of focal point – and Crysstal Hubbard lied about what I said regarding that situation.

RE: Her lying, I am specifically referencing the line “You want to talk for an hour about not believing a man hit me” – I spoke about that situation for about 3 minutes, and I did not (and have never) said that I do not believe that he hit her. What I actually said was along the lines of: if it – or anything like it – happened, no way was Dean involved in encouraging or celebrating such behavior. (Additionally, how the heck I’m supposed to know anything about Curtis as a person when, as I’ve stated more times than I can count, I don’t know him at all, is also curious. heh)

I’ll give her this – there are people in the Axamonitor Facebook group who I would moderate out of existence, if I could. In fact, I said that in my interview – not that she would take note of that, and not that anyone from their camp would understand that I do NOT see every single shitty comment or have the time to take care of all of them on my own – because unlike them, I do not actually spend every moment of my [very limited] free time watching this bullshit.

That said, lying about what someone said in a publicly available interview – and then being called out for your lies and rather than retracting them, giving the reasoning “this might be what you say publicly but *I* believe you feel differently”…OOF.

I honestly can’t believe this is something I even have to state, because one would think it’s obvious…but apparently there are some people who actually might not understand that the only person who looks bad when YOU lie about someone, is YOU.

(And let it be noted, this is not the first time she has attempted to lie about me – I detailed one of her previous lie-ridden diatribes in part 3 of this series.)

Of course, I do understand that people are often going to assume whatever they want to assume – but a person’s assumptions don’t change the truth. To be more specific, Crysstal’s assumptions about how SHE believes I think or feel are (a) her own assumptions, (b) do not change how I actually think or feel, and (c) obviously also do not change the fact that the only argument I have EVER made is that my partner did not do what she said he did…and again, LYING about what I ACTUALLY said doesn’t make ME look bad ::shrug::

Funny enough, while the main reason I haven’t yet posted part 6 of this series is because I’ve been SUPER busy (I do, after all, have a day job and a family, take Taekwondo classes 2-3 times a week, run a convention that is happening in just over a month, host regular webcasts/podcasts, etc.), I’ve also put it off because I was having a difficult time coming up with a proper segue from all of the online bullshit that happened in the summer of 2021 to an incident that happened at Dragon Con 2021…an incident that I knew nothing about until after the fact yet was somehow still accused of participating in. But as further recent comments in the “””Real Truth About Axanar”””” Facebook group have brought that up as well, I think this segue will be quite a bit easier than I originally expected.

For now, until I have time to go into detail regarding THAT situation and how, despite my complete lack of involvement in it, there have been some over-the-top accusations levied against me surrounding what happened, I leave you with this reminder: Both Dean and I have Alec Peters, Crysstal Hubbard, Jon Tessler, and a few others from the Axanar camp blocked on Facebook.

It’s more difficult to block all of them on other social media platforms (i.e. Twitter and Instagram), but as I can, I do. I recognize that because my other social media accounts are public, there are still ways for the people I block to view them – which yes, they seem to be doing on a daily (or at least near-daily) basis, but hey, that’s on them. And really, the lack of self awareness regarding the fact that these people have so much free time on their hands, and feel the NEED, to follow every word that comes out of my mouth/every single thing I post, particularly on Facebook and Twitter (even things that have nothing to do with them) – and whine about so much of it, to boot (which we tend to learn about from others, usually when it gets shared in Axamonitor) – is just sad.

But as sad as that is, it’s also extremely problematic – though not as problematic as people insisting that I was involved in some sort of [non-existent, mind you] conspiracy to commit a crime [that did not in fact happen]. So stay tuned for part 6, I guess ::sigh::

Previous Installments:
Part 1: I’m Not a Star Trek Fan
Interlude: Proving My Point
Part 2: I’m Not an “Axanar Hater”
Part 3: I’m Not Perfect
Interlude 2: Too Little, Too Late?
Part 4: I’m Not Required to Ignore Attacks Against Me
Part 5: I’m Going to Protect My Family

I’m Going to Protect My Family: Alec Peters & Bullying, Part 5

In part 4, I talked about how I exercised my right to cultivate my Facebook friend list so that I no longer had mutual friends with Alec Peters or Crysstal Hubbard, who at that point were both stalking and harassing me (I have cited many examples of this in my previous installments, but part 3 probably contains some of the best ones). I also mentioned that thankfully, I personally didn’t have very many people to remove, as I didn’t have many friends in common with them in the first place. My partner Dean, however, was not so lucky when he made the decision to cut ties with their mutual friends.

Dean had, after all, actually known Alec – something I can’t claim (so again, interesting that Alec and his rabid followers started harassing me in the first place).

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I’m Not Required to Ignore Attacks Against Me: Alec Peters and Bullying, Part 4

My original reason for beginning this series was due to the fact that Alec Peters had joined a so-called “anti-bullying” group called Trekkers Against Bullying. I actually had this installment written and ready to post just before I found out that he had either been asked to leave the group, or left of his own accord, as I detailed in the recently-posted Interlude 2.

To be honest, if his exit from that group had been handled differently – both by the TAB admins and Alec himself – I might have considered taking a bit of a break before continuing my story. But sadly, despite their claim that they asked Alec to leave, the TAB admins allowed him to post an exit diatribe, then removed their public page from Facebook and made their group unsearchable…and then to punctuate things, Alec posted an additional tirade to the Axanar website. (Again, see Interlude 2 for screenshots)

So because I already had this written, and because Alec used his exit from an anti-bullying group to attack more people, it seems apt to continue telling my story. As a reminder, I detailed in part 3 that I came under full attack by Alec Peters – and his girlfriend Crysstal – in the summer of 2021…

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Too Little, Too Late?: Alec Peters & Bullying, Interlude 2

I started writing this series because I was seriously concerned about Alec Peters of all people – someone who has threatened, harassed, and bullied me for a while now – joining a supposed anti-bullying Facebook group called Trekkers Against Bullying (which, in an attempt to link said group in this post, I am being told no longer exists, meaning it was either deleted or has been hidden from searches or even direct links – OOF).

I was in the process of writing part 4 of my series when it came to light that “TAB” had asked AP to leave their Facebook group. My first reaction was “good, you finally removed a bully from your anti-bullying group”, but unfortunately it turned out that there was more to it than that…and this is where I have to digress (not entirely, but more than a little bit) from my own story to explain how things have evolved since I began writing this series.

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I’m Not Perfect: Alec Peters & Bullying, Part 3

As I mentioned in part 2, I joined the Axamonitor Facebook group at the end of 2020, well after my partner had been sued (again, in the wrong jurisdiction) by Alec Peters. My “membership” in said group is what has [apparently? supposedly?] led Alec Peters, his girlfriend, and his flunkeys to deem me a “hater”…but that cohort involving me in their drama began well before I was an active member in Axamonitor.

But I need to begin this part of my story by admitting that I. Am. Not. Perfect. I can’t say that I haven’t made mistakes, screwed up, hurt people. What person can? But the thing is, I OWN my mistakes – I mean shit, that’s the reason I’m still very close friends with my ex-husband. And it’s why I’m not afraid to post what I’m about to say – because I wouldn’t lie about anything, let alone shit that is easily provable. Period, full stop.

So that said…

From the time I joined Axamonitor in November 2020 through the point where everything really came to a head in the summer of 2021, I commented on a total of 13 posts in that group…and there were a LOT of posts in that group in this time period. Of the comments I made, 40% were silly jokes. Of the others, one was me calling out the so-called “Axanar dog rescue”, and was from a position of someone who actually volunteers for a legitimate dog rescue. Another was me questioning them selling cheap messenger bags for $50 each when, from my personal experience with mass-producing items with screen-printed logos (which I do for my convention), one could mass produce those same bags for around $5 each (if not less).

So imagine my surprise when I came under full attack – not just as a “hater”, but as a “stalker” – and also as someone being threatened with lawsuits…among the other absolutely incorrect and awful things they were saying about me!

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I’m Not an “Axanar Hater”: Alec Peters & Bullying in Fandom, Part 2

As I mentioned in part 1 of this series, I’ve seen Prelude to Axanar (and also “the Vulcan Scene” released by Axanar Productions…or Ares Studios…or whatever they’re calling themselves these days) and agree with their fans that these are high-quality productions.

So imagine my surprise I was lumped into a group that Alec Peters and his flunkeys call “AXANAR haters”…simply because I joined Axamonitor, a Facebook group of people who are upset with Peters for his apparent inability to produce the two 15-minute episodes allowed by the CBS lawsuits; his possible probable misuse of donor funds; his constant fundraising despite the money that he earns from sales of items that belong to the CBS IP; his “Ares Studios” Patreon, his superchats in his numerous webcasts, etc. etc.; and MOST OF ALL – his bullying of literally anyone who ever says anything that he perceives might be against him.

Really, I wouldn’t call myself a “hater” of any sort; my feelings about Alec Peters, the rabid people in his camp, and the things they’ve done and said are obviously strongly negative, but “hater” is a childish term that I’ve only ever used jokingly, and it’s honestly pretty damn scary how often they throw it around and how serious they are in their use of it, especially as they regularly take it further and refer to the aforementioned Facebook group as a “hate group” – which, in case you aren’t aware, is patently incorrect, as the definition of a “hate group” is as follows:

A hate group is a social group that advocates and practices hatred, hostility, or violence towards members of a race, ethnicity, nation, religion, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, or any other designated sector of society.

– Wikipedia

But in reference to my original point: I am not an “Axanar hater”. I mean first of all, how can one be a “hater” (even if you ascribe to that term, which I do not) of something that doesn’t yet exist? Second of all, I have zero problem admitting that the actually existing production that started this whole lot of shenanigans is very high quality.

And yet here I am, being shoved into a faction that has been erroneously named by the person it aims to call out for his actions…so whether you want the following details or not, this second part of my series on Alec Peters and bullying in fandom is going to focus on how and why I came to join that Facebook group…and it begins with my being introduced to a friend of a friend at a San Diego Comic-Con industry party in 2018.

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Proving My Point: Alec Peters & Bullying in Fandom, An Interlude

In the past few days I’ve had to revisit my original plan for this series due to two developments. Therefore, in an attempt to keep part 2 at a more readable length, I wanted to make this brief interlude post.

Perhaps I should have opened part 1 of this series on my experiences with Alec Peters and bullying in fandom with the following disclosure: I understand that by writing about my experiences dealing with a person like Alec Peters, I open myself up to more harassment and threats (because yes, I have been threatened with lawsuits by AP before, and as you will see in part 2 and beyond, threatening people with lawsuits and often following through with them is a favorite tactic of his).

As if to prove my point about Peters and his followers, within 10 hours of my first post there were already libelous comments full of false allegations made by someone in the Alec Peters camp.

You can of course – at least as of my posting this at around 11:50 PM Eastern on 1/27/23 – view these comments on my previous entry.

(This is not the first time Alec Peters or someone in his camp tried to say I was involved in some sort of “conspiracy” to do something bad to AP and/or his girlfriend when of course I have never been involved in anything of the sort, so yes, there is much more to come regarding these types of disparaging remarks and accusations that have been wrongfully levied against me…but this particular one is certainly a new one, and so beyond ridiculous that it would be outright hilarious…IF it weren’t so frighteningly obvious that they are continuing to go out of their way to convince people I have done them wrong when, again, I have done nothing of the sort.)

Additionally, within about 24 hours of my posting part 1, for the first time in my LONG history utilizing WordPress and running a blog and then this website through this platform, someone attempted to “hack” (for lack of a better word) into my WordPress account, resulting in my receiving two emails notifying me that someone was attempting to change my password.

To be fair, the latter could have been unrelated, but considering said long history without a single attempt of this sort, the timing is, as they say, extremely sus. Especially as anyone with half a brain – including anyone who has used WordPress before – would know that you can’t change a password on an account without access to the email address attached to that account – which begs the question, was this perhaps just a scare attempt by a person who knew that I would receive the notifications that someone was attempting to reset my password?

Either way, therein lies the heart of the matter – why I am calling out the behavior that I have personally experienced at the hands of Alec Peters and his followers. As I’ve already stated, Alec Peters of all people joining and touting his membership in a supposed anti-bullying group was the impetus – but as someone who has prided myself on being a person who called out this sort of awful, toxic behavior time and time again in the past, it was really past time for me to do so in regards to this situation.

Now, having put that information out there, stay tuned for part 2, which I will hopefully have ready to post tomorrow!

Previous installment:
Part 1: I’m not a Star Trek Fan
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Part 2: I’m not an “Axanar Hater”

Part 3: I’m Not Perfect
Interlude 2: Too Little, Too Late?
Part 4: I’m Not Required to Ignore Attacks Against Me
Part 5: I’m Going to Protect My Family
Interlude 3: The Aftermath of an Interview

I’m Not a Star Trek Fan: Alec Peters & Bullying in Fandom, Part 1

I feel the need to preface this with the fact that I am not a Star Trek fan.

I don’t DISLIKE Star Trek – in fact, I have watched many episodes of TNG, loved The Wrath of Khan, truly enjoyed Strange New Worlds, and also enjoyed the first (and ONLY the first) new Star Trek movie in 2009 (yeah, I know, how dare I, and all that).

The thing is, I was never a part of Star Trek fandom, and honestly at this point I can’t help but think “thank the gods”.

To begin, I have to begin in the present – the situation that prompted me to actually write this story in its entirety.

Last week, I got wind that Alec Peters [of still-not-released Axanar fan film fame] was advertising a Facebook group called “Trekkers Against Bullying” (@TABnation2022 on Twitter). Having had personal experience being stalked and bullied (including an attempted doxxing) by Alec, his girlfriend, and their flunkeys, I immediately went on red alert.

But listen, I get it. At first glance, the guy who “produced” the admittedly high-quality fan film Prelude to Axanar and raised over a million dollars (via Kickstarter & IndieGoGo) to create a feature-length fan film based on that standard seems like a good person with whom to link hands in solidarity…despite him being sued by CBS for copyright infringement.

The problem is, Alec Peters himself is an absolute bully, harasser, and stalker, as is his girlfriend and many of his flunkeys. This is something I know from personal experience, and while I have previously done my best to stay vague or not go public with this honestly very traumatizing experience, what I have heard about the recent webcast interview between Alec and the leaders of “Trekkers Against Bullying” is so problematic that I feel as if I can no longer remain, if not silent, then at least not quiet, about my experiences any longer.

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